jorge
Is Mandriva Dead?
Dec 18 2008 17:38:21
** This thread discusses the Content article: Is Mandriva Dead? **
Distrowatch is not a metric!
#8
AdamW
Is Mandriva Dead?
Dec 18 2008 18:19:07
Erm, I hate to sound harsh, but you should really put more research into your posts.
"If we take a look at popularity through the Distrowatch website, currently Mandriva ranks 7th overall. It still ranks in the top 10 but if we look at what is going on between OpenSuse, Fedora, Ubuntu holding top spots, Mandriva is falling by the wayside to smaller distributions like Linux Mint, PCLinuxOS."
As jorge says, DW is not a metric. But if you'd looked at the numbers more closely, you'd have come up with a rather different story anyway.
Mandriva bottomed out on the DWW charts around two years ago, at +-700 HPD. It has been rising steadily since then to the current position; it got back to 1000 HPD just a couple of days ago. At current rates it will overtake PCLOS again sometime next year.
"What is there to say in the end? Mandriva has fallen on hard times once again. It doesn't have the support from name brand PC makers like Dell, nor does it have the clout of being on a netbook"
Very English-speaking-centric outlook. Mandriva in fact has a major pre-load deal with Positivo, one of the largest PC manufacturers in Latin America; it is pre-loaded onto tens of thousands of systems sold in Brazil. For an idea of scale - Positivo has been discussed recently as a potential buyer for Lenovo
. This is not a small-scale deal.
Mandriva is, in fact, "on a netbook" - more than one. Mandriva is providing the operating system for the Gdium -
http://www.gdium.com - and the Hercules eCafe -
http://www.hercules.com/us/ecafe/bdd/p/84/ecafe-trade-ec-800-h20g-s/ . We have a dedicated OEM program for netbooks called Mandriva Mini, and further announcements will be coming from that program very soon.
So, please be a little more careful with your research in future. Rumours of our death have been greatly exaggerated.
#9
v r
Is Mandriva Dead?
Dec 18 2008 18:56:42
I saw the ManDrakeLinux.com Montreal Old Port Address online
& They gave me the Free Download cds for the Mlug.ca group.
I saw in FutureShop The Box version and it was easy to install.
The ManDriva 2007 live cd works 100% in virtualbox on Ubuntu.
Has some one made a flow chart to compare the distributions?
http://www.linuxfromscratch.org
#10
v r
Is Mandriva Dead?
Dec 18 2008 19:35:04
I saw the ManDrakeLinux.com Montreal Old Port Address online
& They gave me the Free Download cds for the Mlug.ca group.
I saw in FutureShop The Box version and it was easy to install.
The ManDriva 2007 live cd works 100% in virtualbox on Ubuntu.
Has some one made a flow chart to compare the distributions?
http://www.linuxfromscratch.org
#11
notthatguy
Is Mandriva Dead?
Dec 18 2008 22:38:50
You know this is what I call crap blogosphere writing. You're head must be stuck in a hole some where to think that Mandriva is dead. I'm not a Mandriva user, but I communicate with enough of their developers to understand that Mandriva is heading anywhere but down. If anything Mandriva and it's community have began to show the linux community true innovation again like what made it popular from the beginning. My guess is you are one of wanna be linux users showing up to LUG meetings with a dual partition Ubuntu/XP laptop.
#12
Alejandro
Is Mandriva Dead?
Dec 18 2008 22:39:20
On the contrary ; it does have "the clout" of being on a netbook and a very innovative one.
Have a peek here :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gdium
Problem N°1 with Mandriva, it does not belong to the anglo-saxon world. N°2 : It should switch to .deb package system and apt-get.
Truly Yours
Alejandro
#13
AdamW
Is Mandriva Dead?
Dec 18 2008 22:56:34
"N°2 : It should switch to .deb package system and apt-get. "
Why? What possible benefit would that give, at the cost of having to rework the entire package base, a massive task?
#14
LinuxLover
Is Mandriva Dead?
Dec 18 2008 23:47:05
First, Adam, I love Mandriva and wish it well. But, PCLinuxOS is only sliding in the DW rankings because there hasn't been a new release since March, 2007 - and new releases aren't all that necessary because of the "rolling release" nature of it. But, there is a new version on the horizon, PCLinuxOS 2009, and as anyone who follows DW knows, new releases give distros a big bump.
However, it's not the goal of PCLinuxOS to get DW rankings, as the huge bump it received after the 2007 release saw a surge of new users, and ones that were rude and disruptive in the forums. This is not something this small community desires.
But, back to Mandriva. I doubt it's dead or dying. It's merely revamping its strategy, right now, and trying to weather the storm. Mandriva existed primarily as a desktop OS for quite a while, without the enterprise presence Suse and Red Hat shared. With Ubuntu and other absolutely free alternatives competing in the same space, it's hard for a for-profit entity such as Mandriva to compood because the menu is too different. They then complain loudly and make demands that Linux be made more "user friendly", ie. more like windows.
That is not going to happen. People will try and make Linux like windows but they don't get much support. How many of you have heard of ReactOS? How active is that project? You can not even find any mention of it in Distrowatch's popularity page. The most popular distributions are also the most Linux flavoured ones.
Why this is the windows fan club will never understand. To them it is just an operating system because that is all windows is to them. Linux is more than just an operating system. Linux is a way of life.
More Hereete. So, it's looking elsewhere to find revenue streams with staying power. I believe, in the end, Mark Shuttleworth will tire of dumping all those millions into something that gives him no return, and Mandriva will win out in the end, returning to profitability.
#15
LinuxLover
Is Mandriva Dead?
Dec 18 2008 23:48:58
First, Adam, I love Mandriva and wish it well. But, PCLinuxOS is only sliding in the DW rankings because there hasn't been a new release since March, 2007 - and new releases aren't all that necessary because of the "rolling release" nature of it. But, there is a new version on the horizon, PCLinuxOS 2009, and as anyone who follows DW knows, new releases give distros a big bump.
However, it's not the goal of PCLinuxOS to get DW rankings, as the huge bump it received after the 2007 release saw a surge of new users, and ones that were rude and disruptive in the forums. This is not something this small community desires.
But, back to Mandriva. I doubt it's dead or dying. It's merely revamping its strategy, right now, and trying to weather the storm. Mandriva existed primarily as a desktop OS for quite a while, without the enterprise presence Suse and Red Hat shared. With Ubuntu and other absolutely free alternatives competing in the same space, it's hard for a for-profit entity such as Mandriva to compood because the menu is too different. They then complain loudly and make demands that Linux be made more "user friendly", ie. more like windows.
That is not going to happen. People will try and make Linux like windows but they don't get much support. How many of you have heard of ReactOS? How active is that project? You can not even find any mention of it in Distrowatch's popularity page. The most popular distributions are also the most Linux flavoured ones.
Why this is the windows fan club will never understand. To them it is just an operating system because that is all windows is to them. Linux is more than just an operating system. Linux is a way of life.
More Hereete. So, it's looking elsewhere to find revenue streams with staying power. I believe, in the end, Mark Shuttleworth will tire of dumping all those millions into something that gives him no return, and Mandriva will win out in the end, returning to profitability.
#16
LinuxLover
Is Mandriva Dead?
Dec 18 2008 23:49:29
First, Adam, I love Mandriva and wish it well. But, PCLinuxOS is only sliding in the DW rankings because there hasn't been a new release since March, 2007 - and new releases aren't all that necessary because of the "rolling release" nature of it. But, there is a new version on the horizon, PCLinuxOS 2009, and as anyone who follows DW knows, new releases give distros a big bump.
However, it's not the goal of PCLinuxOS to get DW rankings, as the huge bump it received after the 2007 release saw a surge of new users, and ones that were rude and disruptive in the forums. This is not something this small community desires.
But, back to Mandriva. I doubt it's dead or dying. It's merely revamping its strategy, right now, and trying to weather the storm. Mandriva existed primarily as a desktop OS for quite a while, without the enterprise presence Suse and Red Hat shared. With Ubuntu and other absolutely free alternatives competing in the same space, it's hard for a for-profit entity such as Mandriva to compood because the menu is too different. They then complain loudly and make demands that Linux be made more "user friendly", ie. more like windows.
That is not going to happen. People will try and make Linux like windows but they don't get much support. How many of you have heard of ReactOS? How active is that project? You can not even find any mention of it in Distrowatch's popularity page. The most popular distributions are also the most Linux flavoured ones.
Why this is the windows fan club will never understand. To them it is just an operating system because that is all windows is to them. Linux is more than just an operating system. Linux is a way of life.
More Hereete. So, it's looking elsewhere to find revenue streams with staying power. I believe, in the end, Mark Shuttleworth will tire of dumping all those millions into something that gives him no return, and Mandriva will win out in the end, returning to profitability.
#17
Linux Lover
Is Mandriva Dead?
Dec 18 2008 23:52:11
My original post got garbled, somehow... So, I'm reposting:
First, Adam, I love Mandriva and wish it well. But, PCLinuxOS is only sliding in the DW rankings because there hasn't been a new release since March, 2007 - and new releases aren't all that necessary because of the "rolling release" nature of it. But, there is a new version on the horizon, PCLinuxOS 2009, and as anyone who follows DW knows, new releases give distros a big bump.
However, it's not the goal of PCLinuxOS to get DW rankings, as the huge bump it received after the 2007 release saw a surge of new users, and ones that were rude and disruptive in the forums. This is not something this small community desires.
But, back to Mandriva. I doubt it's dead or dying. It's merely revamping its strategy, right now, and trying to weather the storm. Mandriva existed primarily as a desktop OS for quite a while, without the enterprise presence Suse and Red Hat shared. With Ubuntu and other absolutely free alternatives competing in the same space, it's hard for a for-profit entity such as Mandriva to compete.
So, it's looking elsewhere to find revenue streams with staying power. I believe, in the end, Mark Shuttleworth will tire of dumping all those millions into something that gives him no return, and Mandriva will win out in the end, returning to profitability.
#18
PhilG
Is Mandriva Dead?
Dec 19 2008 00:05:13
I am a Mandriva of about 5 years now. I apologize to Adam, but I have tried Ubuntu and in years past RedHat. The fact is that there is really nothing significant which is different between all of the distributions. Distro comparison reviews are really about trying very hard to find any differences. So&so's perception that Mandriva has nothing to wow users is an empty statement. There isn't anything in Ubuntu I can't do on Mandriva, you name it, applications, multimedia, whatever. I have had personal communication with a commentator in the embedded world, and he simply told me that creating controversy was part of his job description. I suspect that this is what this blog amounts to.
#19
texmex
Is Mandriva Dead?
Dec 19 2008 00:09:40
PCLinuxOS is based on Mandriva....
#20
LinuxLover
Is Mandriva Dead?
Dec 19 2008 04:07:51
Actually, Texmex, you're only partially right. PCLinuxOS starts with a solid Mandriva base using Mandriva SRPM's compiled by the developers, compiles its own kernel, adds applications from other sources (Fedora, Suse, Ubuntu...) including some compiled from source, and modifies some of the Mandriva stuff to fit the differences between the two distros. Then, within just a couple of months, most packages will have been through upgrades that have been compile from source. Pretty much everything on my system aside from the necessary libraries and gcc that cannot be upgraded because of the rolling release nature of the distro, my entire system doesn't have any Mandriva sourced apps or libraries left. The only time PCLinuxOS is heavy with Mandriva packages is when a rebase happens, which has been only twice the entire life of PCLinuxOS. PCLinuxOS 2009 will not have any Mandriva sourced packages other than the gcc and libraries and the Mandriva Control Center, which will actually be from source since it gets modified to fit the distro. It's a complex situation, but we rely heavily on Mandriva to get a new base off the ground, which makes life much simpler for our small group of developers, then we head out in our own direction completely.
The developers and most of the users have a heavy respect for Mandriva. Texstar, some of the developers, and many users are all one time Mandy users (myself included).
The approach we use is quite different than Mandriva. Mandy is more cutting edge, with regular completely new releases. PCLinuxOS is more in the slow lane, preferring quality over the speed of the release. Heck, our next release will still be using KDE 3.5.10 because the developers don't think KDE is ready for production use.
#21
LinuxLover
Is Mandriva Dead?
Dec 19 2008 04:10:17
Actually, Texmex, you're only partially right. PCLinuxOS starts with a solid Mandriva base using Mandriva SRPM's compiled by the developers, compiles its own kernel, adds applications from other sources (Fedora, Suse, Ubuntu...) including some compiled from source, and modifies some of the Mandriva stuff to fit the differences between the two distros. Then, within just a couple of months, most packages will have been through upgrades that have been compile from source. Pretty much everything on my system aside from the necessary libraries and gcc that cannot be upgraded because of the rolling release nature of the distro, my entire system doesn't have any Mandriva sourced apps or libraries left. The only time PCLinuxOS is heavy with Mandriva packages is when a rebase happens, which has been only twice the entire life of PCLinuxOS. PCLinuxOS 2009 will not have any Mandriva sourced packages other than the gcc and libraries and the Mandriva Control Center, which will actually be from source since it gets modified to fit the distro. It's a complex situation, but we rely heavily on Mandriva to get a new base off the ground, which makes life much simpler for our small group of developers, then we head out in our own direction completely.
The developers and most of the users have a heavy respect for Mandriva. Texstar, some of the developers, and many users are all one time Mandy users (myself included).
The approach we use is quite different than Mandriva. Mandy is more cutting edge, with regular completely new releases. PCLinuxOS is more in the slow lane, preferring quality over the speed of the release. Heck, our next release will still be using KDE 3.5.10 because the developers don't think KDE is ready for production use.
#22
LinuxLover
Is Mandriva Dead?
Dec 19 2008 04:10:32
Actually, Texmex, you're only partially right. PCLinuxOS starts with a solid Mandriva base using Mandriva SRPM's compiled by the developers, compiles its own kernel, adds applications from other sources (Fedora, Suse, Ubuntu...) including some compiled from source, and modifies some of the Mandriva stuff to fit the differences between the two distros. Then, within just a couple of months, most packages will have been through upgrades that have been compile from source. Pretty much everything on my system aside from the necessary libraries and gcc that cannot be upgraded because of the rolling release nature of the distro, my entire system doesn't have any Mandriva sourced apps or libraries left. The only time PCLinuxOS is heavy with Mandriva packages is when a rebase happens, which has been only twice the entire life of PCLinuxOS. PCLinuxOS 2009 will not have any Mandriva sourced packages other than the gcc and libraries and the Mandriva Control Center, which will actually be from source since it gets modified to fit the distro. It's a complex situation, but we rely heavily on Mandriva to get a new base off the ground, which makes life much simpler for our small group of developers, then we head out in our own direction completely.
The developers and most of the users have a heavy respect for Mandriva. Texstar, some of the developers, and many users are all one time Mandy users (myself included).
The approach we use is quite different than Mandriva. Mandy is more cutting edge, with regular completely new releases. PCLinuxOS is more in the slow lane, preferring quality over the speed of the release. Heck, our next release will still be using KDE 3.5.10 because the developers don't think KDE is ready for production use.
#23
AdamW
Is Mandriva Dead?
Dec 19 2008 05:47:13
LinuxLover: yep, I certainly didn't mean to imply anything about PCLOS by my comment, it was just a measure of comparison that the article author had used, so I followed up on it. PCLOS is a good project. Good luck with the 2009 release.
Phil: I can certainly see where you're coming from; if you have hardware that's well supported by all distros and stick to using the most commonly used and actively developed software, you will see little difference between the main distributions these days. That's probably a good thing - it means no-one's screwing up really badly. But there are still significant differences between distros that show up when you get slightly off the beaten track.
#24
Mike L.
Is Mandriva Dead?
Dec 19 2008 14:56:21
Thanks for the comment guys. As far as using DW as a metric, it could be said that it is as accurate as when a new distro comes out is somewhat true. I mean, DW is the only website that announces distros and has truly a worldwide following so you could say their metric is somewhat popular.
As per the Mandriva "anglo-saxon" comment. You are correct, I know Mandriva is from France but the thing is, when you compare markets, its not a big market here in North America, but it might be popular elsewhere. It could be said the same about Suse before it was purchased by Novell that it was more focused in Europe than in North America but it has changed since the purchase.
I don't see any netbooks being sold with OpenSuse here in North America, but when you say Dell has a deal with Ubuntu, it is quite a big thing indeed that a top mfg will support a distro. Asus eeePC runs a variant of Xandros if I am not mistaken.
I still find it silly that distros are being updated every 6 months and should focus more on bug fixing than anything else, instead of releasing a new version with more bugs.
I took a look at AmaroK 2 reviews from people and some people just dropped it and went back to version 1. Everyone has their favorite distro. I for one, am not a big fan of Ubuntu for some unknown reason and prefer OpenSuse. As for the big wow look at all the attention Ubuntu has received over the past couple of years and all the websites you can ask for help. It's great to see what Ubuntu has done.
I do not wish Linux be like Windows, but one thing would be nice is if we could have the hardware support that Windows has when it comes to drivers and maybe more games
#25
Mike L.
Is Mandriva Dead?
Dec 19 2008 15:22:17
Thanks for the comment guys. As far as using DW as a metric, it could be said that it is as accurate as when a new distro comes out is somewhat true. I mean, DW is the only website that announces distros and has truly a worldwide following so you could say their metric is somewhat popular.
As per the Mandriva "anglo-saxon" comment. You are correct, I know Mandriva is from France but the thing is, when you compare markets, its not a big market here in North America, but it might be popular elsewhere. It could be said the same about Suse before it was purchased by Novell that it was more focused in Europe than in North America but it has changed since the purchase.
I don't see any netbooks being sold with OpenSuse here in North America, but when you say Dell has a deal with Ubuntu, it is quite a big thing indeed that a top mfg will support a distro. Asus eeePC runs a variant of Xandros if I am not mistaken.
I still find it silly that distros are being updated every 6 months and should focus more on bug fixing than anything else, instead of releasing a new version with more bugs.
I took a look at AmaroK 2 reviews from people and some people just dropped it and went back to version 1. Everyone has their favorite distro. I for one, am not a big fan of Ubuntu for some unknown reason and prefer OpenSuse. As for the big wow look at all the attention Ubuntu has received over the past couple of years and all the websites you can ask for help. It's great to see what Ubuntu has done.
I do not wish Linux be like Windows, but one thing would be nice is if we could have the hardware support that Windows has when it comes to drivers and maybe more games
But there are still significant differences between distros that show up when you get slightly off the beaten track.
